Friday, October 30, 2009

Free will enigma? Lend your logic?

If God gave us free-will, then he did it forcefully, which contradicts free will itself. At what point did we exactly get free will? From birth? Then we didn%26#039;t chose it, and hence it wasn%26#039;t free will. Did we chose it some time in life, after maturity for instance? If we did %26quot;chose%26quot; it then we must have already had it to be able to make that choice.



Free will enigma? Lend your logic?apply for a loan





First off... to arily666... Would you like to borrow some PUNCTUATION??? How can you expect to %26quot;rise to higher thought%26quot; when you cannot express yourself correctly grammatically? I am assuming you DO want people to understand the points you are making.



God created man %26quot;complete%26quot; and %26quot;perfect%26quot; WITH free-will. He did not FORCE it on mankind. The creature %26quot;mankind%26quot; possessed free-will from the moment it was created... God didn%26#039;t go back and ADD free-will to the mix.



It would be like saying that God forced birds to have feathers, or dogs to have fur, or the sky to be blue. They exist that way from the beginning, it is part of their nature. Thusly, it is part of mankind%26#039;s nature to have free-will.



So your premise is not logical. We didn%26#039;t %26quot;get%26quot; free will at any particular point... we %26quot;had%26quot; free-will, just as we have skin, hair, teeth, DNA, thoughts, souls, blood, etc. etc.



NO one chooses to have free-will either. That is just totally illogical. How can you choose to have blue eyes, or brown hair? It %26quot;comes with the package%26quot; so to speak. Again, you cannot CHOOSE something that is UN-chooseable, so to speak. We cannot choose to be carbon-based life-forms... it%26#039;s just that way. We cannot choose to be hungry or thirsty, it just %26quot;is%26quot; that way because we are living beings.



When Christians say that we have free-will... or they say that God %26quot;gave%26quot; us free-will, they are not saying that God has FORCED free-will upon us. They are meaning that, when God CREATED us, He created us WITH the characteristic of free-will... since God is the source of all creation, He %26quot;gave%26quot; us that free-will.



YOU are the one who is MIS-defining the term GAVE/GIVE as being something FORCED. If you read ALL the definitions of the word GIVE (see Merriam-Webster site below), in NONE of the definitions is the concept of force or coercion involved.



If you GIVE a child a birthday present, are you FORCING that child HAVE that present? NO. We are meaning, when we use the word %26quot;give%26quot; that you are the %26quot;source%26quot; of that gift.



Now that I%26#039;ve said that, I%26#039;m sure you will totally dismiss the argument simply because I am Christian... and Christians are unable to think for themselves, right? No matter what we say, you can dismiss it as brainwashing, right?



I will now sit back and await the accumulation of thumbs DOWN.



Have a blessed day.



Free will enigma? Lend your logic?

loan



My logic says there be no god. aaarggh matey!!|||Free will is an illusion of the ego.|||Firstly, god, being a fiction, has nothing to do with the question of free will. Secondly, there is in fact no such thing as free will: if one had recorded all the sensory data that a person had noted during his entire lifetime, it would be possible in principle to predict how he would behave in any given situation. But this is of course impossible, and free will is a model which is sufficiently close to the way things actually appear to work to be useful.|||Actually, you chose it before your birth. You%26#039;re only putting it in action now.|||So what is the problem ?? Are you afraid you will make the wrong choice. If so ,, ask God to help you with your decisions, He would love to help you. God Bless|||No one said that free will was perpetual through life. However, our response and belief toward God is. So what is your choice? To mock it, or walk toward it? But don%26#039;t expect your choice to be a surprise to God.|||your biggest mistake is the word %26quot;if%26quot; and the second mistake is the word %26quot;god %26quot; when we use poor wording we cannot expect to rise to higher thought. when you have choices you have choices whether you believe in a god or not the rest is clever fallacious thinking designed to promote an ideology of religious political significance ...even snakes make choices as do other lower animals they are just a bit more limited



if choice evolved from the recognition of multiple courses actions that were availed we must give some credit to the working mind of life not to superstition.



peace and happiness may you have your share in this life|||You have to define your terms better. Free will doesn%26#039;t mean anything more than that a person has the ability to make choices within the boundaries that they have available to them. It doesn%26#039;t mean that a person can choose whatever they want to choose. It means that when they are presented with choices they have the ability to pick which option they prefer.|||In the before time...before Earth was even a glimmer in the Eye of God, we asked that He do this for us. He allowed it. Then the Great Plan was made. Each of us contributes to it.



At least, so I%26#039;ve read.



So the story goes, that during each of our lives, a certain message will be given, and we will either respond favorably, or not to it. If so, it will be tested, if not, it will be offered again several times until the course of that person%26#039;s life has ended.



imo, free will does not mean that we have the choice to do whatever we please, but it means that we have the choice to call upon God for help, and in this way, understand how deeply we are obligated to Him.|||How do you know God did not give you a choice to be born?



You are splitting ridiculous hairs.



Obviously a person cannot make a choice or have freewill if a person does not exist.



Therefore freewill begins at the point at which a person begins to exist whether they choose to exist or not.



Now you have another %26quot;enigma%26quot;, when do people begin to exist?



Oh my, now you are in the Pro-Life, Pro-Choice argument trying to figure out when life begins.|||Now that is a damn fine question. You get a star!



Yahoo needs more questions like this...it makes the goons %26quot;react%26quot; instead of %26quot;respond%26quot;, which makes them easier to identify. Good job!!!|||I%26#039;m sure you%26#039;ve read all the free will arguments that could be written. Logic has nothing to do with it - you have already decided.



%26lt;sigh%26gt; Your argument is flawed - but then, it%26#039;s really just baiting anyway, right? It makes no sense. Free will is part of our humanity - if it wasn%26#039;t, we would be robots, we aren%26#039;t. You are free to chose to believe or not - believe in God, free will, Jesus Christ, your own salvation, anything you want.



But, I would submit, a closed mind is no longer free - when you close your mind to the idea that, just maybe, He does exist, maybe He is for real - you give up some of your free will - willingly (another enigma, no?)|||Well, well, well, do we doubt? It is amazing how sometimes we think we can take our pea-size brain and out-logic God.



All of us, according to Genesis 2:1-2 were created in the 6th Day, and God rested from all His work from all that He had made and it was finished. K?



YOU, the truly real you, the core of who you are; your spirit was created then with all the rest of us (and we were the created, not consulted about that, it was a Creator%26#039;s gift of life). From that standpoint, from that moment of being created, you had free will. You and the Creator decided together: He said, you agreed; OR You said, and He agreed.., (but He has NEVER violated your free will choices from within our parameters of being.) to come to Earth, equipped in every way for your particular purpose and through which womb you would enter, from what seed you would come forth. YOUR choice among infinite choices. We can never BE equal to God, our Creator, but can become ALL we can be.., %26quot;in God%26#039;s image and likeness%26quot;. Now, since it is obvious that you are here.., by choice and you have agreed to come here, fulfill your earthly, human destiny; go back to God when your time is over and take others%26#039; with you.



Not a mystery; no enigma. God is SO omnipotent that He can choose to not know your decisions and choices UNTIL AFTER you decide and choose; that would violate your free will. %26quot;Nothing is impossible with God%26quot;, and %26quot;NOTHING is impossible to him who believes.%26quot; Get God and a Believer together and ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE!! %26lt;smile%26gt; IF not LOGICAL, friend.



Just think about having choices and with each choice is the consequence that comes with it. Our choices are within a set framework of options. We can%26#039;t BE God.., remember, satan tried that one!



We can be %26quot;of His flesh and bones%26quot; and %26quot;one spirit with Him%26quot;, but NOT HIM. God will even let you choose to die and be etenally away from Him if that is what you choose..., but why would anyone want that?|||It could be suggested upon birth we all have consciousness, and from that point we are making decisions. Although thinking simplistically, if we’re given a gift (maybe a present on birthday) don’t we always have the choice of accept it? If the suggestion is “when” we get the gift, wouldn’t some then argue “receiving it later in life is not fair because we didn’t have the choice since birth”? Maybe what we really struggle with is the responsibility associated with the gift, and not necessarily when we receive it. Faith is all about UNDERSTANDING, and understanding is not achieved quickly.



PS – thanks for the question and welcome to the great debate.|||Not really. You have to start somewhere. Is saying starting with one means math is useless because it has no numbers? You didn%26#039;t ask to be born, but you have the free will to fix it, That%26#039;s free will. You only have to make one choice and the problem goes away. He had to give you, you before he could give you free will, don%26#039;t you think? You can%26#039;t give free will to something that doesn%26#039;t exist of give it anything, for that matter. A word enigma is a word puzzle, You can%26#039;t always make sense out of random word combinations, I figure. If you had been a robot you wouldn%26#039;t have the gift of free will. Correctly grammatically is like saying you can%26#039;t express yourself correctly correctly. That%26#039;s a contradiction. You can%26#039;t express yourself grammatically grammatically. Of course you can. lol Unless being grammatical is impossible in which case how can you be criticized? You have a choice to understand the question one way, in which case it%26#039;s not understandable or understand it in another way and it is. That%26#039;s a microcosm of all life. It%26#039;s like you choose to believe of not. lol There%26#039;s plenty of facts on both sides, you choose your facts or what to study. You can take that sentence two ways also. Putting all the facts together you would be able to predict, but free will makes it impossible. Although I doubt anything is impossible. Putting ourselves, %26#039;reality%26#039; or the earth as the center of the universe, all cause problems. I think that saying free will is an illusion of the ego is an illusion of the ego.|||We were born with free will. The ability to make choices. And of course, that initial choice was made for us. But who cares? The Creator has the right to make that choice for us. He also has the right to choose what obstacles we get to face in our lives. When you create your little Lego villiage, you can choose what they do. It is the right of a Creator. He felt that giving us free will was the best thing for us. Who are you to argue with God?

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